Seeing several recent posts on icing situations, I was struck with a
curiosity of how much a part of watching for ice accumulation becomes a
part of your scan, for those of you who have flown into potential icing
conditions.

I've seen a lot of postings, regarding icing, and the places to look
for accumulation and I started to think about how I would feel being in
those conditions, and how it could be easy to fixate on looking for
ice!

I'm not asking, with the intention of flying into ice, but was curious
as to how the masses who have been in the ice, incorporate it into your
scan.

How much is too much? How fast is too fast? How often do you look?
Man... seeing the slightest trace of ice, I don't see how you could
pay attention to anything else!

Best Regards,
Todd

I include an ice scan whenever I'm flying near icing conditions. Even
if the OAT says +2C you may really be in icing conditions due to errors
in measuring temp. For me, in my Mooney the first place ice usually
appears is on the very bottom of the OAT window gauge (you really have
to crank your neck to see the bottom of the end).
I'm firmly in the camp that there is no way, no how any IFR pilot who
really flys IFR on a regular bases can go through his entire career
without hitting ice where its not suppose to be. The skill is in
keeping yourself in a position to get out of it.
-Robert, CFI

three-eight-hotel > wrote:

> How much is too much? How fast is too fast? How often do you look?
> Man... seeing the slightest trace of ice, I don't see how you could
> pay attention to anything else!

I scan once every minute or so during icing conditions, but in fair
disclosure I use my AP to handle most of the climb and cruise portions of
the flight anyhow, which frees me to monitor ice formation.

The minute I see a trace of ice forming, I run through my options for
escaping it.



--
Peter

"three-eight-hotel" > wrote in message oups.com...
> Seeing several recent posts on icing situations, I was struck with a
> curiosity of how much a part of watching for ice accumulation becomes a
> part of your scan, for those of you who have flown into potential icing
> conditions.
>
> I've seen a lot of postings, regarding icing, and the places to look
> for accumulation and I started to think about how I would feel being in
> those conditions, and how it could be easy to fixate on looking for
> ice!
>
> I'm not asking, with the intention of flying into ice, but was curious
> as to how the masses who have been in the ice, incorporate it into your
> scan.
>
> How much is too much? How fast is too fast? How often do you look?
> Man... seeing the slightest trace of ice, I don't see how you could
> pay attention to anything else!
>
> Best Regards,
> Todd
>
Without contradicting any of the answers given by others,
I'll add that your normal instrument scan will suggest "ice" to you
when you notice your airspeed beginning to reduce without any
change in power settings or altitudes.

Depending upon the airplane(s) you fly, you may already recognize
*carburetor* ice by the slowly falling manifold pressure it causes.
You will learn to recognize *airframe* ice by its aerodynamic effects, too.
Don't just add power without wondering why you needed to.

>From my experience once you get to the point that the ice is creating a
noticable change in airspeed, its pretty bad. You probably want to
notice the ice before it gets this bad.

-Robert

On 3 Jan 2006 17:49:13 -0800, Robert M. Gary wrote:

>>From my experience once you get to the point that the ice is creating a
> noticable change in airspeed, its pretty bad. You probably want to
> notice the ice before it gets this bad.

Not necessarily. On my only encounter with icing where I was skimming the
tops of the clouds of a stratus deck, I picked up trace icing and noticed
where I had to sneak in some power.

I could see (barely) trace on the leading edges and the front of the
stabilator, so it affected the aerodynamics enough for me to add power.

Granted, it was only 25 RPM increase in my case, but it was enough for me
to ask ATC for 500 feet higher so I could stay out of the visible moisture
so the stuff could subiminate off..

If frost on wings will affect the performance on a plane, surely flying
with trace icing will do the same thing?

Allen

On 1/3/2006 8:06 PM, A Lieberman wrote the following:
> On 3 Jan 2006 17:49:13 -0800, Robert M. Gary wrote:

(snip)
>
> Not necessarily. On my only encounter with icing where I was skimming the
> tops of the clouds of a stratus deck, I picked up trace icing and noticed
> where I had to sneak in some power.
>


>(snip)
>
> If frost on wings will affect the performance on a plane, surely flying
> with trace icing will do the same thing?
>

"Mitty" > wrote in message ...
>>
>> If frost on wings will affect the performance on a plane, surely flying
>> with trace icing will do the same thing?
>>
If it did, it would reduce your airspeed.
But I think you're talking about overnight frost covering the airplane.
In cruise flight, you'll first get ice only on and near leading edges.

Oops. Last one got away early.

> On 1/3/2006 8:06 PM, A Lieberman wrote the following:
>
>> On 3 Jan 2006 17:49:13 -0800, Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>
> (snip)

>
> Not necessarily. On my only encounter with icing where I
> was skimming the
> tops of the clouds of a stratus deck, I picked up trace>
icing and noticed
> where I had to sneak in some power.
>

Skimming the cloud tops in icing conditions is a known Bad
Place To Be. I request higher automatically without waiting
to see the ice. Higher is less bumpy too.

> (snip)
> If frost on wings will affect the performance on a plane,
surely flying
> with trace icing will do the same thing?
>

Actually no. Frost screws up the boundary layer air flow
while icing affects the shape of the leading edge. I don't
have first hand experience with frost but everything I've
read leads me to conclude that it is much worse than a
little (1/2-3/4") ice on the leading edges. And I have
landed with that on Cherokee/Arrow class airplanes. Not
that either is recommended ...

Its possible. I would say that each ice encounter I've had with my
Mooney has been different. I'm not sure why. Once the first thing I
noticed was a slow down and then noticed the ice on the leading edge.
I've seem it where there was no ice on the tail and I have had it where
it started on the tail first. I"m not sure what causes it to form
differently at different times. Luckily, I've always put myself in a
situation where I can get lower in warmer air. I've never been forced
to let it build up. I will say that in stratus clouds the worst ice
seems to be at the very top of the layer. Turning around doesn't help
much in that weather but changing altitudes makes all the difference.
In CU clouds changing altitudes doesn't help much because the ice is
running up and down the elevator but turning helps a lot because CU
tends to be clusted in small regions (vs. stratus that can spred for
hundreds of miles). Mixed stratus and CU would be pretty scarry in ice.

-Robert

three-eight-hotel wrote:
> Seeing several recent posts on icing situations, I was struck with a
> curiosity of how much a part of watching for ice accumulation becomes a
> part of your scan, for those of you who have flown into potential icing
> conditions.

My two cents worth: I've had only two icing encounters. Both times it came on
rather suddenly and wasn't anything I had been "scanning" for. Perhaps that says
more about my scan than the nature of icing...

Dave Butler > wrote:

> My two cents worth: I've had only two icing encounters. Both times it came on
> rather suddenly and wasn't anything I had been "scanning" for. Perhaps that says
> more about my scan than the nature of icing...

Ice accumulation can happen very fast depending on the degree of severity,
which underscores the importance of scanning for it very frequently.


--
Peter

Especially in CU clouds. You have moisture that is coming down the CU
elevator from much colder temps. It hits your airplane and freezes very
quickly if the temp of your wing allows. Someone once proposed making
the wing out of the same stuff that ice cube trays are made of. What
ever happened to that? :)